I suggest you pick up a copy of Steven Hawking's new book,
"The Universe in a Nutshell", if you can find one. We've
learned a great deal about the universe in recent years.
Lee
Lee Elder
JoinedPosts by Lee Elder
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9
No hope for understanding the universe?
by sleepy inis there no hope for truly understanding the universe?.
if a person believes that we were created by a supreme being who is in control of and fully understands the universe, he may reason that we were created with the ability to also understand the universe.. but if we are not created and have just evolved as part of a natural prosses why should we asume that our brain should have any grasp on a true understanding of things.. how can we know that our brains just are not in tune or cannot grasp any of the fundementaly important concepts that case this universe to exist?.
maybe in trying to understand the universe we are just tying ourselves up in knot trying to know the unknowable?
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Lee Elder
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Suicide yes, I have concidered it.
by Shane inwhy would i want such a thing:.
i am lonely, and i know that most of the women who are jw's are concerned with them selves they want rich men with flashy clothes.. women who want prestige in the congregation saying look i got an elder for a husband see how he is taking the lead in my family in all things and giving talks at the assembles, i show him respect as man only because he has earned it in the fashion of a bride price.. thus the above relates to me to the extent my ex-wife got me to believe in all this negative crap, that i as a man was unworthy of god and my fellow members if i don't size up to all the religious do's and don'ts.. depression oh yeah i am that just like toy's r. us, traumatic brain injury then my a wonderful wife in good standing in the holy witness congregation of twenty-one years, dumps my sorry ass saying gee you have changed too much.
like duh, you have large portion of your brain stabbed and gouged from skull fragments and see if it does not confuse you or contribute to depressing you dear, of course no response she just goes and marries a known child molester of the congregation who then attempts it on my twelve year old daughter.. oh there's is much more so crazy you would think i was making it up, but who gives a flying crap, huh.. ~shane
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Lee Elder
Those who know me personally know that I have dealt with serious illness for a very long time. That challenge has been compounded by serious illness with my wife and son. I suspect that most individuals who wake up day after day, year after year feeling poorly are going to consider suicide at some point. One of the interesting comments I read some time ago on this subject defined suicide as what happens when one's coping resources exceed the level of pain in their lives. From this perspective the solution appears clear and straightforward - reduce the pain or increase the coping resources - either can work.
Unfortunately, there are some individuals with circumstances that cannot be improved and in fact are deteriorating - generating more and more pain with the progression of time. This is both heart breaking for the person and those around them.
The one remaining alternative in these situations is to increase coping resources and there are plenty of examples we can point to where individuals have successfully been able to do this despite dealing with incredible amounts of pain in their lives. At some point quality of life comes into the picture but that is another post.
I am reminded of something written many years ago that expresses my feelings quite well:
"John Quincy Adams is well but the house in which he lives at the present time is becoming delapidated. It's tottering on its foundations. Time and the seasons have nearly destroyed it. Its roof is pretty well worn out. Its walls are much shattered and tremble with every wind. I think John Quincy Adams will have to move out of it soon. But he himself is quite well, quite well."
John Quincy Adams 1767-1848
Be well,
Lee
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Remaining in Association with Jehovah's W...
by Marvin Shilmer inremaining in association with jehovahs witnesses .
an active baptized member of jehovahs witnesses finds significant errors taught in the central publication of the religion, the watchtower journal.
the error is taught with frequency in private and public settings arranged by the religion.
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Lee Elder
Thank you for a well thought out, well-written post. AJWRB would consider publishing such an article. This is an incredibly complex subject and I believe that there are other some other factors that also have an important bearing on the personal decision each must make. I had a very interesting discussion of this subject with Ray Franz a couple of years ago. He related the experience of an elder who preferred option one. The problem was that the man's entire family - children and grandchildren - were all JWs. The elder's wife told him that she would kill herself if he disassociated himself and it was his judgement that this was no idle threat. Who would want to be responsible for suggesting a course of action that led directly to the death of someone else? The only reasonable course, in my view, is to reserve judgement and allow individuals to make the choice that seems best for them and their families.
Lee
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Center of the Bible
by Lee Elder inthis is pretty strange or odd how it worked out this.
even if you are not religious you'll enjoy this.. .
what is the shortest chapter in the bible?.
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Lee Elder
This is pretty strange or odd how it worked out this
way. Even if you are not religious you'll enjoy this.
What is the shortest chapter in the Bible?
Answer - Psalms 117
What is the longest chapter in the Bible?
Answer - Psalms 119
Which chapter is in the center of the Bible?
Answer - Psalms 118
Fact: There are 594 chapters before Psalms 118
Fact: There are 594 chapters after Psalms 118
Add these numbers up and you get 1188
What is the center verse in the Bible?
Answer - Psalms 118:8
Psalms 118:8 (NKJV)
"It is better to trust in the LORD than to
put confidence in man."
Good advice as long as you don't let someone convince you
that they speak for God.
Lee
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Blood Issue and Hypocrisy
by teenyuck ini have told a couple of people on the board, thru e-mail, who i am, who my mother and family are.
i hope what i am about to post will not get my mother in trouble.
my mother met a man about 24 years ago.
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Lee Elder
Yours is an odd post - I understand that you are troubled by your mothers apparent hypocrisy, but no where do you mention that this man is a Jehovah's Witness. Do you think that the irrational beliefs of some Jehovah's Witnesses should be brought to bear upon their non JW friends? I have seen a number of situations where JWs tried to refuse blood for their non-JW family members but what you suggest is very peculiar.
Why would you think that your mother is reponsible for the doctors giving this non JW man a transfusion of blood or platelets? Your mother seems to have passed on these strange views since she told you that your husband has first say regarding whether or not you would have a blood transfusion = utterly bizzare thinking. The whole point that we have worked to stress is informed, autonomous decision making in health care matters.
Not to put to fine a point on it, you and your mother need to stay out of this man's choices regarding health care unless he is a Jehovah's Witness and has signed an advance directive regarding the refusal of blood products that names one of you to act in his behalf. By the same token, it is no ones business but yours as to whether or not you want to receive blood products. If you have JW family members who will not respect your wishes, you need to do the following:
1. Have a discussion regarding your views with your personal physician and place a letter in your medical file.
2. Appoint some non-JW family member or friend with a health care power of attorney/advance directive/health care proxy that expresses your wishes.
3. For added insurance, place some written directives in your purse or wallet that will alert medical personnel to the fact that you have JW relatives who may be anxious to impose their irrational views of blood upon you in an emergency if you are unconscious and direct them to the individual you've named in #2.
Make peace with your mother and shed the JW baggage.
Best regards,
Lee
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Valentines Day
by Lee Elder insitting here sipping an italian margarita and getting ready.
to enjoy a romantic dinner with my beautiful wife of 20 years.
it just hits me - how great is this?
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Lee Elder
Sitting here sipping an Italian Margarita and getting ready
to enjoy a romantic dinner with my beautiful wife of 20 years
it just hits me - how great is this? I love Valentines Day - what
a great holiday!I hope that all of you have someone to put your arm around tonight
and tell them how much you love them. Robert Frost wrote, "Love is the
irresistable desire to be desired irresistably." To love is to live.Cheers,
Lee
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JW's blood as to Mormon's polygamy
by Moxy ini think in time, the blood transfusion doctrine will fade away very similarly to mormon's polygamy doctrine.
the doctrine met with increasing legal pressure from the state and internal dissent from more liberal members.
the tide seems to have turned after the doctrine was about 50 or 60 years old (i am using 1830s as origin date) and from about 1900 on, the lds church no longer offically sanctioned the belief.
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Lee Elder
The comparison is a pretty good one. Our strategy has basically been to make the WTS appear foolish and unethical before the medical community with the hope that at some point they will get tired of the embarrassment and finally shed this irrational policy for good. A few law suits or aggressive governments would speed things up as would an escalation in the "drying up" of support for the doctrine among the membership but the direction is already clear. I think its just a matter of time before the WTS jetisons the entire millstone. I think that most of us who have prematurely lost loved ones will be glad to see it finally over.
Lee
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would you take blood?
by master chief inim confused would i take blood if i was about to die and had no other alternative treatment well to me thats allways been a hard one one to answer and people have allways hated witnesses for refusing it or not giving blood to there own kids.you see my mothers due in to hospital on tuesday and having a major operation the problem for her is she is inactive as a jw and has no blood card which is upto date what do you think she should do 1.phone elders 2.trust in jehovah and refuse blood.3if it comes to the worst take blood and live.
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Lee Elder
This is a potentially useful and important story for several reasons. We would like permission to use the story. If you consent, please email the story to us at: [email protected]
Thanks,
Lee
Wickid wrote:
Actually had to make that decision for myself a few years ago. I was facing brain surgery when my JW father stepped up and and boldly informed my surgeon that there would be no blood transfusions. I was 30 at the time. The surgeon said: "well okay, if that's your wish, I'll honor it. But you should know that you have an artery as big as my thumb near the area I'll be cutting. If I accidentally knick it, there's a good chance you will bleed to death." After some very objective research and serious soul-searching, I was able to secretly get the 8x10 "no blood" decal removed from the outside of my medical file without my family knowing about it. Just to be sure, I made my best friend, who is an attorney, responsible for my healthcare decisions, and had the Advanced Directive form removed from my chart as well. In the surgery prep area I was acosted by an incredibly zealous JW scrub nurse who said she had seen my "no blood" forms, and by golly, she was on my side and was going to make sure I didn't get any of that evil stuff. Like a trooper, my pal stepped up and took care if it before she could finish her sentence as I was being wheeled off. I never had to say a word, and I never had to disappoint my family with the news of reversing my decision. Everything went fine, and no transfusion was necessary, but that is such a hard decision to make after a lifetime of indoctrination. I just couldn't believe that the God I serve would value blood more than the life it could save.
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would you take blood?
by master chief inim confused would i take blood if i was about to die and had no other alternative treatment well to me thats allways been a hard one one to answer and people have allways hated witnesses for refusing it or not giving blood to there own kids.you see my mothers due in to hospital on tuesday and having a major operation the problem for her is she is inactive as a jw and has no blood card which is upto date what do you think she should do 1.phone elders 2.trust in jehovah and refuse blood.3if it comes to the worst take blood and live.
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Lee Elder
I have spent countless hours studying this issue. I would prefer to avoid the use of blood in favor of non-blood alternatives. If my physician advised me that my condition required the use of blood products, I would consent with a request for a conservative use of these products. I wouldn't have any concern about whether the blood product I needed happened to be on Watchtower's list of permitted blood products or not. Their list is in a perpetual state of flux and there is no rational basis for their determination of which blood products are permitted or forbidden.
Lee
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Why God cannot have existed forever.
by sleepy inwhy god cannot have existed forever.. this is something a friend of mine brought up a number of years ago.at the time i just thought that to understand how a god existed forever was just beyond our little brains.. well now after reading a lot more physics books i think its evidence a god couldn't have existed forever and therefore would had a begining (if there was a god).. basically if god had lived from infinity in the past we wouldn't have been created yet as there would always be forever untill we were created.. do you get that?.
at any point in time we could take, if time went back forever then you could never get to that point in time.
you would always have infinity infront of you.. sorry if this doesn't make much sense as it is not easy to describe.
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Lee Elder
Trying to understand "God", is like trying to explain color to a blind man or a 3 dimensional world to a 2 dimensional "flatlander". If he exists, he or she is incomprehensible in every sense. How much time have you spent trying to explain your existence to your cat or dog? Wouldn't do much good, would it? To me, the intriguing question is why is there something (the universe) rather than nothing?
Believe what you find comforting - just be sensible and honest enough to distinguish between faith and reality thereby limiting the potential for belief systems to control or manipulate you in a detrimental way. The whole point of faith is that it does not require proof or evidence. Believers who try to prove God's existence, prove the Bible is the word of God, etc., have missed the point.
Lee